Roe v McCain

For PUMA voters, Independents and moderates alike… this is a MAJOR question when contemplating a vote for John McCain, and one that no one seems to be answering honestly.

Peeling back the pandering and the rhetoric, I will attempt to answer this genuinely difficult question… “What about Roe?”

I feel the need to make it EXPLICITLY CLEAR that I am PRO-CHOICE and UNWAIVERINGLY SO.  I DO NOT want Roe v Wade overturned and think that, no matter the merits, it is a Stare Decisis decision at this point and should be judged accordingly.  There are also plenty of cases that have affirmed Roe or affirmed it’s stare decisis status, so overturning it would be difficult at this point.  It would go against a lot of precedent to do so.

Ok, so now that is out of the way, on the the rest…

Let’s be honest about this… John McCain is a conservative. That fact cannot be ignored nor should anyone pretend that he is anything but.

The question that everyone seems to be passing over without answering is “what kind of a conservative is he?”

The answer is that he is more like Barry Goldwater than he is George Bush.

John McCain is not a “neo-con” that is in bed with the religious right. He is not a “born again” Christian and he is not a fundamentalist Christian. He is a true conservative in that he has a big libertarian streak with the desire to limit the role of the Federal Government in local and personal issues.

Now, let’s clarify something… a person can be pro-choice and not support the Roe v Wade decision. These are two separate, but admittedly linked, issues.

The Roe v Wade decision states that laws against abortion violated a constitutional right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, that a woman had a right to an abortion up to the point where the fetus is viable outside of the womb and set up a “trimester” system. The decision overturned all state and federal laws outlawing or restricting abortion that were inconsistent with its holdings.

Ok, so now with that out of the way, what does John McCain believe about Roe v Wade, what does he want to do about it and why?

First, what does McCain believe about Roe v Wade?

John McCain believes that Roe v Wade is a flawed LEGAL decision.

For him, the problem he has with Roe is not really about the result of the decision (the legalization of “Choice”) but about the legal reasoning behind the decision. He believes that the Supreme Court basically invented a right to privacy and claimed to find it in the Due Process clause of the 14th Ammendment.

To be honest, even though I am staunchly pro-choice and believe that the result of the decision is the proper one, John McCain has a very good case and he is not entirely wrong.

The legal basis for the Roe v Wade decision is widely recognized as extremely weak and has been subject to criticism not only by the conservatives but even by famous liberal legal scholars such as Alan Dershowitz, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Kermit (Kim) Roosevelt, and several others including Cass Sunstein, an Obama advisor no less.  Simply put, the language Justice Blackmun infers from the Due Process clause in justifying the decision is a big stretch.

The Roe v Wade decision is probably the closest you can get to legitimately arguing that judges are “legislating from the bench” because of the tenuous legal basis upon which the decision is based and the sweeping result it had upon the population and culture of the United States.

As an aside, it is also interesting to note that Lawrence Tribe, Barack Obama’s mentor at Harvard Law, is among those highly critical of Roe. In light of this tidbit, the fact that Obama was going to vote for Roberts’ appointment and was prepared to lambast the Democrats for filibustering his appointment until a staffer informed him that it probably wouldn’t be a good idea is quite interesting.

Regardless…

Second, what does McCain want to do about it?

The answer to this is simple. He wants Roe v Wade overturned.

So what happens then? Is abortion automatically illegal?

No, no aboriton doesn’t become automatically illegal. (There are approximately 5 states, like Illinois, that have “trigger laws” that would make abortion illegal, but those were passed in the 70’s and many of those state are far more liberal now than they were then.)

So essentially, nothing happens immediately.

John McCain wants the issue sent back to the states so that they can decide for themselves, then the states decide for themselves and some may keep choice legal, and some may not…  but the United States if FAR more socially liberal than it once was and a national ban is so unlikely as to be nearly impossible.

Third, why does McCain want it overturned?

Does McCain believe that life begins at conception? Absolutely. There is no question of that and he has been quite clear.

Is he Pro-Choice? To an extent, yes.

While he has a zero rating from Naral every year and is personally pro-life, he does believe that the states should decide for themselves. He will advocate for “life” at all times, but he is a true believer in Federalist principles and thinks that states should have the final say on the issue.

He has said more than once that he believes that life begins at conception, but that he supports the rights of others that disagree.

John McCain has also made it abundantly clear that while he is personally pro-life, his opposition to Roe is based upon the flawed reasoning behind the law and the over-reaching power of the bench rather than purely religious reasons.

This is where he diverges radically from people like George Bush and the Religious Right.

He also supports embryonic stem cell research, which is another great philosophical divide between McCain and the religious base of the Republican Party.

Now, we also have to remember that these things take time and a variety of factors have to click just right for Roe to get overturned, so it is not like the moment McCain gets elected that Roe is gone. First, a seat has to open up on the Supreme Court, something that the Roe screaming Obamabots seem to over look that this is not certain to happen, just a strong possibility. Then the appointee has to not moderate once on the bench (which does happen regularly.) Then a case has to work it’s way up through the courts that has the right merits to challenge Roe.

So this is what McCain believes, what he wants and why. Is this ideal?  No, especially not for pro-choice women.

The question of Roe and voting for McCain is a hard one and I understand why. This was a landmark decision and one that even I don’t particularly want to have to fight again….

But here is my question to you… Is the women’s movement so atrophied that the terms Roe v Wade and Women’s Movement are now interchangable?

What about the right for women to aspire to the top positions in the country and not get called silly, dumb, a bitch or a bad parent? What about equality of women in the workplace and in the home? What about respect for women as people in the media, in the home and in the workplace?

If the women’s movement is more than just Roe v Wade and is more about gender equality and respect, then please explain to me how it is that Sarah Palin is not a giant step forward for women?

I am in no way saying that anyone should vote for Palin solely because of gender, anymore than I would advocate that people vote for Obama based on the color of his skin, but that people recognize her for what she symbolizes…  a step forward, not backward.

What is most important to you is for you to decide.

Anyway, so there it is… what McCain believes and some food for thought.

I want to remind you that I am STAUNCHLY PRO-CHOICE and am a DEVOTED FEMINIST before you start commenting!

I want to hear from you, please tell me what you think and how you feel about this subject… just dont start yelling at me LOL.

.

This is cross-posted to No Quarter, where I am thrilled to be a contributor!

13 Responses

  1. Interesting points. I’d also mention that any Supreme Court nominee would have to be confirmed by the Senate, which will almost certainly be in Democratic hands for the next two years, and likely the next four. If Democrats are serious in preserving Roe in addition to using it as a campaign weapon, all they have to do is not confirm any nominee who doesn’t pledge to uphold Roe.

  2. I think the argument that Roe v. Wade is based on a flawed premise or that it should be left up to the states is a ruse.

    I wish Roe v. Wade had been decided as a violation of the 13th amendment, but it wasn’t and quite frankly I don’t want the states to be able to enact their own laws. There is too much danger that conservative states would not only outlaw abortion but outlaw women crossing state lines to have an abortion.

    And yes, all the other things do matter, but as a woman, I can tell you not much of anything matters MORE than the idea of reproductive freedom.

    Sorry, but your analysis doesn’t calm my fears about Roe v. Wade.

    Mountain Sage

  3. Good post, though.

  4. Beyond the fact that it takes comgress to agree to the judges–The important issue no one looks at with roe v wade is that even is it is overturned–abortion will not be illegal in the nation. Thats right–overturning it simply puts it back to no laws and places the decisionin the hands of each state–a near impossibility to stop. The Dems use roe v wade as blackmail on women to keep them in bondage to their far left agenda which is NOT in the best interests of the nation.

  5. Excellent summary. There’s little in McCain’s record that suggests he’d want to invest a lot of political capital in forcing reactionary judges past the Senate.

    Even if the worst happened, any state that imposed serious restrictions would face a series of PR disasters once it started trying to enforce them. Once it’s no longer a matter of euphemistic platitudes about “life” but rather of forcing actual women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, the full ugliness of what anti-choice means will become obvious. It’s hard to believe such restrictions would have real teeth for long.

    Anyway, what’s the alternative? After Obama’s flip-flops, can we be sure of what he’d do about this as President?

    A Democratic Senate might fight less hard against Obama’s bad judges than against McCain’s bad judges.

  6. Excellent summary, one of the best I’ve seen! Finally we are getting the word out: true gender equality and respect encompass far more than a simple nod to reproductive issues. As a life-long, fervently pro choice advocate who has consistently fought for womens’ rights, I can attest to that fact. The word ‘Choice’ denotes just that: the freedom to CHOOSE what is right for each person IN EVERY ARENA without fear of judgment or retribution, and must include ALL areas of life.

    Thanks again for making that vital distinction. As long as women’s right are considered to be nothing beyond reproductive issues, women will continue to be held hostage by Roe, and told to hold on to the crumbs thrown at them by those who refuse to see women as anything more than reproduction machines.

  7. This is a discussion my daughter and I shared just last night, only brought up because she disagrees with Palin’s position on abortion. At the end of our conversation, she understood that the senate would be the ones deciding to accept or deny a judge that is put up for consideration, and we both agreed that things cannot be percieved so that abortion should be used as birth control. We represent two generations of women from Roman Catholic background, both believe abortion needs to be preserved in the instance of rape and incest. I would add medical reasons as well. The funny thing is that for both of us the issue of women’s right evolves more around issues like equal rights protections. I live in a state where now men are given precidence in custody cases, just to control the issue of trying to get them involved in the kids lives and be financially responsible. My daughter lives in a state where women almost automatically get custody. Both of us have seen men paid more for the same job. The main issues have changed for so many women now, and to have the democratic party attempt to simplify everything down to roe v wade is an insult to both of us. It is time for the party to put its money where its mouth is, stop treating us as children or possessions. As adults with the freedoms granted us in the ammendments of the constitution we will now place our faith in the structure of the government and its system of checks and balances. No more of the bull***t of the democratic party of non democracy! McCain/Palin 08 for us.

  8. [...] This is cross posted from my blog at Texas Hill Country [...]

  9. I am an avid feminist but not perhaps an extrmemly classically liveral one. I am an horse breeder who has artificially inseminated horses myslef, collected semen, frozen it, examined it under microsope for viability and shipped it. So, from a lay scientist point of view as well as a woman and moralist……………and a secularist for the most part.

    There was a time when the need for abortion was greater as a method of family planning. NOW it is not so needed………there is a morning after pill and lots of birth control choices….Every woman of child rearing age should have a stash of morning after pills in her wallet like guys carry condoms. We, as feminists should make sure this becomes a reality. Abortion is a very bad and emotionally devastating form of birth control at best.

    Conception does not take place immediatly upon insemination for the most part, rather it takes place hours or even days later SO there is a good argument that the moring after pill is not abortion even to the stictest pro-lifers.

    3rd trimester abortions or late term abortions are murder in my book. I have never been able to stomach this practice and its devasting to even think about it from a nurses perspective. First trimester…not so bad…..second…….very bad but maybe not murder

    I have very personal experience as a woman with the issue of unwanted pregnnacy. I also have a special needs grandchild whom I adore as well as typically developing grandchildren. I do not have the knowledge to approach this from a legal or constitutional point but love learning from others.

    As far as rape and incest…..lets go back to the moring after pill. If you are raped….go to the doctor…..if you are the victim of incest…..go to the Dr….If you are too poor we will pay for your moring after treatment. If you are the victim of incest and the pregnancy can be aborted early you should have it with the “threat to health of the mother’” reason as your mental health is certainly at risk. But, DONT WAIT!

    I presume the morning after pill is good for more than 24 hours but I am not an expert on this. But, basically these are my views and solutions. It will not be perfect but run away abortion is not the soluton either. Too much and too loose teen sex has many negative elements not to mention STDS. Lets talk about and teach our daughters and sons that masterbation is not a bad thing and a much better alternative than drunken or drugged teen sex. Lets help them avoid premature emotional complications that early sex brings with it not to mention the disaster of teen pregancy or STDS.

    I would love to hear comments on my views.

  10. I am an avid feminist but not a classically liberl one. I am a horse breeder who has artificially inseminated horses myslef, collected semen, frozen it, examined it under microsope for viability and shipped it. So, from a lay scientist point of view as well as a woman and moralist…and a secularist for the most part.

    There was a time when the need for abortion was greater as a method of family planning. NOW it is not so needed…there is a morning after pill and many birth control choices….Every woman of child rearing age should have a stash of morning after pills in her wallet like guys carry condoms. We, as feminists should make sure this becomes a reality. Abortion is a very bad and emotionally devastating form of birth control at best. There are people waiting in line to adopt as well.

    Conception does not take place immediatly upon insemination for the most part, rather it takes place hours or even days later SO there is a good argument that the moring after pill is not abortion even to the stictest pro-lifers.

    3rd trimester abortions, partial birth or late term abortions are murder in my book. I have never been able to stomach this practice and its devasting to even think about it if you were to really see it in aciton like from a nurses perspective. First trimester…not so bad…..second…….very bad but maybe not murder toward the end of the second trimester.

    I have very personal experience as a woman with the issue of unwanted pregnnacy. I also have a special needs grandchild whom I adore as well as typically developing grandchildren. I do not have the knowledge to approach this from a legal or constitutional point but love learning from others.

    As far as rape and incest…..lets go back to the moring after pill. If you are raped….go to the doctor…..if you are the victim of incest…..go to the Dr….If you are too poor we will pay for your moring after treatment. If you are the victim of incest and the pregnancy can be aborted early you should have it with the “threat to health of the mother’” reason as your mental health is certainly at risk. But, DONT WAIT!

    I presume the morning after pill is good for more than 24 hours but I am not an expert on this. But, basically these are my views and solutions. It will not be perfect but run away abortion is not the soluton either. Too much and too loose teen sex has many negative elements not to mention STDS. Lets talk about human needs and feeling and dicuss that masterbation is not a bad thing and a much better alternative than drunken or drugged teen sex. Lets help them avoid premature emotional complications that early sex brings with it not to mention the disaster of teen pregancy or STDS.

    I support a shelter for unwed mothers in my town by the way. Some keep their children some adopt.

    This is not meant to be a comprehensive solution but rather to get an honest discussion going on solutions. I would love to hear comments on my views.

    I think the Dem Party does try to scare women with this issue.

  11. Cross-posted from NoQuarter: Thank you Texas Hill Country for this well written, well-thought-out article.

    Q: Did McCain support the attempts to add a Constitutional ban on gay marriage?

    Q: Has he ever authored a bill to restrict gay rights or ban abortions?

    This article makes a good point which should not be overlooked: McCain is more of a Barry Goldwater republican than a Bush republican.

    I live in Arizona. He’s a moderate and a fiscal conservative. He holds social conservative beliefs … but it is his laissez faire, anti-government belief system that drives his legislation.

    And, correct me if I’m wrong (I could be on this point) Sarah Palin is more conservative than McCain on this issue of Roe… however, she is pro-contraception, pro morning after pill and supports abortion when a woman’s life is at issue. As such, she’s not any more conservative than most devout Catholics.

    How has McCain governed? How has Palin governed? Have they been like Rick Santorum? No. They have focused on fiscal responsibility, waste in government, streamlining government and getting rid of corruption in government.

    Their past priorities and actual accomplishments while in office give insight to their future governing style.

    Also, several others have said it well: we have a system of checks and balances for a reason. Just like Bill Clinton had to deal with a Republican controlled Congress in order to get his SCOTUS nominees through … McCain would have to do the same. He’d never get a hard-right, anti-abortion candidate through the Democrat-controlled Congress.

    And, remember, these judges who are even considered for SCOTUS justices have long judicial records … it’s not like they can hide their record.

    I’m one of those old bra burners. I fought hard for the passage of the Equal Rights Amendment. I’m a Democrat and pro-choice … and like many others here, I believe abortions should be safe, legal and RARE!

    Bottom line: let me be very clear:

    This ole gal is too smart to let the Democratic party fog-up my glasses with fear tactics. And, I’ll be damned if I let them or anyone else define MY FEMINISM! I’m not a feminist based on ONE issue… and I’ll never give the Democrats, NOW or NARAL the right to box me in or tell me which women’s issues are most important.

    To me, I’m unwavering in my goal: Hillary 2012!

    That will NEVER happen if Obama is elected.
    — peniel cronin

  12. [...] left has screamed about how she wants to overturn Roe v Wade and teach creationism in schools but these attacks have not worked, so they continue to scream [...]

  13. [...] left has screamed about how she wants to overturn Roe v Wade and teach creationism in schools but these attacks have not worked, so they continue to scream [...]

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